The Planify Podcast

How to Sell Without Being Pushy: The Honda vs. Rolls-Royce Method | The Planify Podcast Ep. 10

• Planify Agency • Season 1 • Episode 10

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If your marketing feels like you're throwing ads at a wall and hoping something sticks, this episode is for you. Casey Cease sits down with Angela Arnold, Founder and Fractional CMO of Arnold Marketing, to talk about why so many small businesses struggle to turn leads into real growth, and what separates a marketing plan from an actual marketing strategy. Angela shares how she built a remote-first agency before it was common practice, why she almost had to close her doors during a year of breast cancer treatment, and how that experience forced her to build systems that did not depend on her being in the room every day. She also breaks down why she chose to niche her agency into health and wellness marketing, even though it meant turning away business for 18 months before it started paying off. If you are trying to figure out whether your business relies too heavily on you, how to pick the right niche, or how to get better leads instead of just more leads, this conversation gives you a practical, honest look at what that process actually takes.

💡 KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS EPISODE:

  1. A niche works like a magnet, not a filter. It should attract the right-fit clients to you, not force you to turn away every business outside of it.
  2. Buying ads before you have a real marketing strategy usually produces more leads, not better ones. Strategy work upfront can multiply lead quality.
  3. Map out clear "who does what" swim lanes for your team before a crisis hits, not during one, so client work can keep moving if you are suddenly unavailable.
  4. Ask your best customers three simple questions: what they like about you, why they bought from you, and how they would describe you to a friend. Then act on what they tell you.
  5. Give a new niche about 18 months before judging whether it is working. Trust and referrals in an unfamiliar market build slower than paid traffic does.

🕒 CHAPTERS & TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 - Why Invite Other Agencies
00:02:09 - Leaving Corporate For A Remote Agency
00:03:17 - Marketing Touches The Whole Business
00:08:58 - Finding Your Unique Ability
00:12:24 - Cancer Forces Better Delegation
00:18:15 - Choosing A Health And Wellness Niche
00:23:16 - Research And Quality Beat Volume
00:28:06 - Showing The Path And Next Steps

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

🤝 CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST:

🚀 CONNECT WITH THE PLANIFY TEAM:

ENJOYED THIS EPISODE? HERE'S HOW TO SUPPORT US:

  • Subscribe to the Planify Podcast on your favorite platform so you never miss an episode.
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Welcome And What You Will Learn

Casey Cease

Hey, thanks for joining us again for the Planify Podcast. My name is Casey Cease. I am the founder and CEO of Planify Agency and really excited to have my friend Avi Siegel with me today. Avi is an entrepreneur, business owner, uh, sales coach, and trainer. Um, but but even more than that, he's a genuine, authentic guy, right? A lot of times when people talk about sales, they have a lot of things that pop up in their mind. And what Avi is trained to do and trains others to do is to lean into how they actually are, identify and capture what their process is, and then figure out ways to maximize that process so they can replicate it with other salespeople. And so we're gonna talk about a little bit about his background, his business experience. We're gonna talk about sales and influence. We're gonna compare Honda versus Rolls-Royce buying experience and really learn a lot about the sales process with Avi today. And so without any further ado, let's enjoy some time with Avi C. Hey Avi, thanks so much for joining me today on the Planify Podcast. Why don't you take a few minutes and introduce yourself to our viewers and listeners

Avi’s Businesses And Growth Story

Casey Cease

today?

Avi Siegel

Yeah, happy to. And thank you for having me on this. This is great. Um, so Avi has what is Avi? Who is Avi? I've got a couple different businesses right now, currently. Uh Vital Signs, which is a sign language interpreting agency. That's a great story within itself. Uh, the short version of that is I joined the company back in 2012, 2013. Uh, Joyce Dworski has started it in 1987, also known as my mother-in-law. There we go. And uh spent the next seven years or so just holding every single position within the company, finding all the things that I'm good at and all the things that I'm absolutely terrible at. There were a couple positions I got yanked very quickly from because as an entrepreneur and as a visionary, I live at the 10,000-foot view, and so that ground floor got ripped out of that position pretty quickly. Um, that's Vital Signs. So Vital Signs in 2019 took it over. Back then, we were probably about, I would say, two, two hundred and fifty employee contractors across the U.S. Now I know this number because my COO just told me we're about 620 something across the U.S. So we've done some pretty cool growth, amazing team, and really just uh facilitating communication between the deaf and the hearing worlds. So that's vital signs. Then probably about uh 10 years ago, the seat of SBC, Seagull Business Consulting, was started, and that morphed over time. That started probably about uh five years of mentoring, we'll call it. Uh, a friend and mentor of mine, Franklin Baker, for anyone who's local to the Maryland area, he's the CEO of United Way of Central Maryland. Uh, he convinced me to go start mentoring people, and that started this whole new path of SBC, which is something that I've gotten a lot of uh excitement, passion, energy uh out of. And so that path was let's say the short version of it, five years of mentoring turned into the launch of SBC because I realized I need to do this on a much larger scale. Went from helping anywhere from let's say the high end of small businesses to the solopreneur consultants, uh, helping them achieve financial freedom. And that morphed into a specific sales training. There's there's two things that I've always been good at in every company that I've joined, run, acquired, whatever it was, and that's been creating self-managing entities and client acquisition. And so SBC has really honed in on that client acquisition piece. And then there's a bunch of other uh collaborations and partnerships. There's a collaboration with Steve Caton around helping founders get out of the sales seat. That's a really interesting and a really fun one, pivotal moment for founders who've been rain making their entire career. And either they know that they're they have to transition themselves to CEO rather than salesperson, or they never really liked the sales seat. Sometimes they talk about it, sometimes they don't. And now they're like, all right, I've got the I've got the infrastructure built, let me get out of the sales seat. So we help them get out of the sales seat. Then there's a couple other partnerships and collaborations around CRM implementation uh and a few others. But that would be the main way that I fill my days.

Casey Cease

So what what I've gotten to know about you and appreciate about you is, I mean, even with client acquisition, we're talking sales, right? And you're one of the smoothest in the most positive way. So I'm not saying greasy, I'm saying very smooth, uh, relationally based salesperson that really does relate with the founder. As a founder myself of several businesses, I know that, you know, when we're starting, I'm a quick start on the Colby. So like I'm I'm in at first, but then I get kind of kind of gets redundant to me. And I've been very fortunate in some of my businesses to bring on people that are great at sales, but it it's it's been very hit or miss. And one of the things I've appreciated about getting to know you is that when you say mentorship, you're really helping guide people through that process. So something that comes easy to you for those of us that are in coach, we use he used the word unique ability, but like just you genuinely care about matching people to the right solution for their need, understanding their need and matching them there. But how how did you get, I mean, I'm pretty decent at sales, but I'm not sure I would go and start a mentorship just for sales. I mean, I I've done some sales consulting with groups and everything else because it needs some structure in place. But how did you make that leap from being good at sales to then training other people on how to approach sales?

Why Mentoring Became A Mission

Casey Cease

Yeah, that's a really, really good question. Um, for me, it's it's a deep question because it wasn't about the finance side of it. It wasn't about, okay, I need a new business or or a new vent or anything like that. I I fell in love with it because I'll lead with the end result. I was rinse and repeating financial freedom for individuals, consultants, solopreneurs, small business owners, in a way that I was able to do it for myself. And it became a very rewarding path. The maybe I won't go fully down this path, but the way I grew up, I'll call it uh, let's call it middle class, let's call it lower middle class, right? Always a food, always food on the table, always a roof over our heads. But I understood the financial restrictions we had as a family. I understand the financial restrictions we had uh within our family, let's just keep it that way. And it was something that I was able to really change for myself and my family. Uh I knew from a very young age I was never going to have my family go through some of the things that I went through. And this is, I want to be super clear, right? Like, this is not a poverty story at all, whatever. This is just there were some things in my life that I was not happy with when it came to finance, and I was gonna change it. I wasn't going to have my kids, I don't even think my parents know this story, and I'll say it here. And you know, my mom has passed over the years, but maybe my dad will at some point hit.

Avi Siegel

Watch the podcast and he'll find out. But um, I remember just it must have been mid-December growing up in New York, and it was freezing. And we lived in this Moreau home, and it was built in probably the 40s or the 60s, and it had original windows, and it had a uh air conditioner that was built into the brick. That air conditioner was broken, incredibly drafty. The windows were original windows, incredibly drafty, and it was freaking freezing, right? And because I knew financially uh where we were as a family, I didn't want to go down and increase the heat or ask my parents to increase the heat. Don't get me wrong, they absolutely would have, but I I didn't want to do that. It didn't want to be because of me that we spent more money, let's say, right? I really hope my dad does not hear this podcast. Um, but anyway, so I just put on two sweatshirts, two sweatpants, two blankets, and I went to sleep. And I didn't think anything of it. And I love the way I grew up. Like we had an amazing home, you know, full of love, everything I could have wanted. Um, but I also knew that my kids were not going to do that. And so it became very important to me to achieve that, let's say, that level of financial freedom or financial freedom in general. Um, and so I went down this path of I was able to achieve this path through client acquisition, through sales. And so all of a sudden, I you combine that with uh Franklin, who was telling me go mentor people. I started mentoring people, and I realize I'm in love. Like I love this. I am literally changing these people's lives in a way that I was able to help, you know, my future generations for me. And so it just became this no-brainer. It's like, this is what I have to do. Like I have to help them achieve financial freedom. So that's how it all got started.

Casey Cease

So walk us through a little bit, though, how you how you go about working with someone. So someone comes to you and says, Avi, look, I need to up my sales game or client acquisition, I need to think through these things. I mean, it's obviously you're not just sitting there and telling them, hey, do better, uh, try harder. You're you're not necessarily just saying, hey, you start out with a $7 offer, then 47, then 97, then 197, then 497, then 1997, right? You're not coming in with like a just the value ladder. How do you approach, you know, someone comes to you and says, hey, Abi, I really want what you're offering. I want this financial freedom. I want the ability to create value for my ideal client. What's your process in general look like with

The Honda Versus Rolls-Royce Sales Model

Casey Cease

them?

Avi Siegel

So I'll say straight out, and this happens in my process. I'm not for everyone.

Casey Cease

Yeah.

Avi Siegel

This process that I have is different, right? Like you talked about uh being like one of the smoothest people, right? Those are your words. And to me, it's because it's genuine and authentic, right? I'm gonna put all the pieces together, right? Everything I do is genuine and authentic. And so I can take a conversation, I can be 10 minutes into a conversation with someone and I can tell them the hard truth. Like, this is a huge block for you. I don't know if you go, if you figure this out without accomplishing X. And I'll say it straight out because I also don't think being a yes man is is the right thing to do. And so I will always challenge. And for for the sake of growth, I will always challenge. And so I will tell people straight out, like this may or may not be the right path. I don't know, but I will then tell them, I want to make sure you know everything about how I do sales. And I'll use this analogy where I call it the I don't know, the Honda versus Rolls-Royce analogy, right? And this is very much my methodology on how I sell. This is how I can do the smooth but be genuine and authentic at the same time. Is how I can command an entire sales process from a genuine and authentic place, sign, let's say, high-ticket items and never once be pushy. Like we never ever want to be pushy, right? Like we want to guide conversations and make real change in people's lives. And so this is the Honda to Rolls process. Most people, most small business owners, they're running a Honda process. That Honda process, I'll paint the picture for you. Okay, uh, and I heard this first by a friend of mine, Ryan Nidell, who's also an absolute genius, uh, especially when it comes to sales. He described this as, you know, when you walk into Honda, right? Imagine you are walking past those big glass doors. They're probably they're glass doors for an absolute reason, many reasons, one of which the reps use so that they can see who's walking in the door, right? Before you even get in the door. So you're walking past these glass doors. If you look through the through the windows, you're gonna see sales reps looking at you. One million percent. You open that door to get into the dealership, there's probably like a chime or a bell, something on the door that signifies that someone has walked in. Right? Well, why is it signifying? And what are the reps doing? The reps are immediately turning to look at who just walked in the door. If they haven't already spotted you before you've even seen them, walking past these big glass windows, and they're gonna know if a prospect has just walked in. Now, you've walked in, the chime has gone off. If you look around immediately, you'll see a couple sales reps looking at you. Keep watching and see how many take that step forward, right? Because there's gonna be a bunch of them on the floor and they all want to crack at the next sale. This is a very pushy process, if you can already see where I'm getting at here, right? So the first person who gets to you and and and gets the word in, you're theirs.

Casey Cease

I bought a Honda before, so I mean, I I don't know. I'm like, were you did you have a camera? Were you spying on me? Because that's exactly how it was.

Avi Siegel

Yeah, it's exactly. I've bought many Hondas and I love Hondas. I don't love their sales process. No, but I love the cars. Anyway, um, that first person that talks to you, right? You are theirs. They're gonna do everything within their power to get you to sign on the dotted line and drive off the lot with a car. They're gonna push and push. They're gonna go to the manager's office. Are they actually going to the manager's office? Probably not. They're probably going to the coffee station, grab a coffee, because it's all designed to be this kind of icky, right? It's that icky, it's that ick, that pressure-built system. Um, and that's that's their job, right? But now let's compare that to roles. Rolls, you walk in, there's no chime on the door, there's no bell. They don't care who's walked in. Because if you've walked in, they're gonna make you work hard for that sale. You then have to go, maybe there's floor models, maybe there's not. You might look at them, you're gonna go find a rep. You're gonna build a relationship with that rep. You might get an introduction to a rep, somebody else's guy, that you now build a relationship with. Maybe you transfer trust from that friend of yours to that rep. Then you're gonna work really hard to prove to them that you deserve a roll. And if you're lucky enough, you can sign on the dotted line and you can wait 12 to 24 months for your car, right? So the Honda is the push, the roles is the pull. I do the pull. I'm a pull guy. I rescue people all the time from push processes to pull processes because that's just the right way to do sales, right? Nobody wants to have a pushy type conversation. So the first thing I do is I tell people, like, do you want the pull? Right? Like, if you don't, that's totally fine. Like, you can go the honor, you can go the push route. That just means that we're not the right fit. If you're interested in the pull, now we can have a deeper conversation to see whether or not this makes this makes sense. We've got past round one, we're gonna get to round two and figure that

Screening Clients And Expecting Execution

Avi Siegel

out. So if somebody to answer your question, Casey, when somebody comes to me and says, Hey, I want in, the first thing is we gotta make sure that this is the right process. You have to know what you're getting into. Because, and I'll always tell people I'll pre-frame the hell out of this to everyone, because if you do come in, success is expected. And because of that, we have a we have a tight guard, just like roles, right? We have a tight guard in the door. You're not getting in unless we know for a fact that you're gonna have massive levels of success, because that's how we do things. So they come in, they gotta figure, they gotta pass test number one, that uh this is the right methodology. Then they gotta pass test number two, where I interview the hell out of them to make sure that I know I can get them success. Because we we've all had, Casey, I'm sure you know this too, and you've experienced this. We've had clients, we've had two different types of clients, many different types, but let's say two for the sake of this. You have the one client that you gotta just drag, you gotta pull them all the way to the finish line. It takes a lot of work and it sucks. Then we have the people that truth is they're gonna get to the finish line regardless of working with you, because they're so driven and they want it so badly, they'll get there. But you can take a two-year, three-year journey and turn it into two, three months, and that individual values that. And so those are the individuals we're looking for. We're looking for the people who really want it and really have the capacity to get it. And we know we're gonna have success because we just don't want to pull people to the finish line. Maybe it's selfish, but it's no, I roll.

Casey Cease

I I'm the same way. When I'm when someone comes to me and wants a marketing strategy, um, the first thing I start asking them is what's your sales process? Um, you know, like, well, I just need to get leads. Okay, but when you have them, what what do you do? For instance, home service businesses, if you bring them leads and they don't follow up for 48 to 72 hours at all, um, and then they come back and say they're bad leads. No, you have a bad sales process, right? Because if it's a home service business, unless they're recommended, you know, referred to you, then they're just going down the line calling whoever comes across and looks somewhat trustworthy and get the job done, right? And I'm the same way, teeing it up with coaching, right? I I mean, the the when you coach someone, I mean, part of being the coach is you're not the player. And that that's the thing that people have to understand is when you're going through a coaching program, whether it's a sales program with Abi or you're coaching with me on strategic growth, like you have to understand that ultimately is your ability to execute is really where the value is found, right? And so whether, you know, whether it's uh a sales process, a marketing thing, operational, whatever, if you're not able to execute, then you're gonna you're then not gonna be able to afford for me to drag you across the line. I once told a client, I said, look, I can't want it more than you do. Um, you know, I can, but that's not gonna make it happen. Me, me hoping that you execute isn't gonna make it happen. And so as you assess people, you they go through your process with you and they begin working with you. Um, what are your expectations for them? You know, for instance, like Rolls-Royce dealership, I mean, they're curating their brand, right? And, you know, because there are only so many Rolls Royce handmade every year. And so they they want to be mindful of who's getting access. And so I I know that you're similar in that way, that you like you said, I mean, I think the wise way to do business, especially those of us who offer higher ticket offers, is to ensure success for all parties, right? Because I don't know about you, I don't, I don't care how much I'm getting paid, if it's not winning, then I have a hard time being a part of it, right? So yeah, I mean, I remember I was talking to someone early on. Um, I was doing this marketing campaign for a client, and um they said, Man, they're they're paying you a lot of money. I was like, This is the worst money I've ever made. And they're like, That's a ton of money. I said, that doesn't matter because they're not they're not executing their part of it, right? And so what are some ways that you're able to tell that someone is an ideal client for you and what you do? Because you only have a limited capacity of time uh to be able to help so many people, right? You're not doing these massive, you know, thousand-person group programs right now. You you work with a select hand few people. What are some easy signs? Maybe someone listening here or watching on online could say,

High-Performing Entrepreneurs And Right Alignment

Casey Cease

like, hey, I'm I'm that guy for Robbie. Like, what are the what do those look like? Like, what are some qualities that you look for?

Avi Siegel

Yeah, that's also a great question. It's that high-performing entrepreneur, right? It's that person that knows I'm going to win, I'm going to get this. But I also know that I value speed, right? I value being able to do this in three months, in two months, rather than try to figure it out myself in three years or two years. And so those are the individuals that have the have the biggest impact. Um, they consider themselves the high-powered entrepreneur. Um, they themselves are always looking for to be the best version of themselves. They're always looking for that next level up so that they can uh really continue to accomplish and see that success. They've probably gone through some peaks and valleys, right? Like they've probably felt like they were winning and they were high of high, like they loved it. And then they had some valleys and they were like, what the hell is going on? Right? Company stagnated a little bit, or it's not growing like they wanted it to grow, or maybe it's declining, small, you know, small declines, nothing major. Um, those are the individuals they tasted that success, they want that success back, and they're gonna fight like hell to get that success.

Casey Cease

So you you said something. I I I wanna clarify a little bit my understanding of a high powered entrepreneur because in the circles I've run. Originally, high powered means they're working 80 hours a week, they're grinding, they're quote unquote crushing it, they're doing all these things themselves. For me, that is a high energy entrepreneur, not a high powered entrepreneur. And here's what I mean: I think high-powered entrepreneurs, it's kind of like having a Ferrari engine with no transmission, right? Where it's it's it's it's got the horsepower and everything, but it's not connected to the right things. And so for me, before I would think, okay, they're making a lot of money, they're working a ton, they're grinding, they they've seen growth, everything else. But for me, I've actually found the antithesis uh is actually true. The the clients that've been able to help the most are the ones that are saying, like, okay, I I have a lot of energy, but it's misdirected. Yeah. I need realignment. And and what I always tell people is I want you to think about a locomotive, a train engine, right? You know, because a lot of the guys I work with are an eight on the Enneagram, which are powerful people, whatever. They got a high energy, they grind, or they're threes, and they are really, you know, achievers and everything else. The problem is with a locomotive without a track, the only way it can go is down.

Avi Siegel

Yeah.

Casey Cease

The faster it goes, the the the bigger hole it's digging itself. And so, really, for me, is is finding the ideal client that wants to be on the right track and leverage their energy appropriately, right? And so, you know, I can coerce people to do something. The thing that I found, obviously, in sales is do I want the transaction or do I want the relationship, the value? Right. And so in the high pressure sales, I mean, because quite honestly, I can go to I bought a Honda in 2018, something like that, 2019, right? And I guarantee if I go back today, most likely the salesperson that sold it to me that day is probably not at that dealership any longer. Yeah. Right. You know, and so they're not really concerned about me sending them a ton of referrals over the years, coming back every 2.5 years buying a new car. What they're worried about really is getting that sale, getting that commission onto the next one. Like a I always say like a hungry hippo going after the marbles. Um and as opposed to coming in and saying, like, no, no, I want to build strategic relationships with the right people long term. Because when I help people think they're their their marketing and growth strategy, I always let them know is like the real value of a client isn't at the opening transaction. It's in year three as they're bringing other people like them into your ecosystem, as they're entrusting you with more of their time and their money in their business, and they're experiencing consequential growth. And so over the years, I I've I've realized that folks like you is you're not just looking to get someone through a two, three-month program with you. You're looking to help reshape the trajectory of someone's life.

Avi Siegel

Yes.

Casey Cease

Right. And I think that that is an important nuance where client acquisition, uh, I think it was Dan Sullivan, right? That always says never always be the buyer. And and and taking that approach of, you know, acquiring the right customers that we want to work with in order to do that. So as you are working with Steve now and you guys are bringing this offer together, uh, one of the reasons I wanted you to talk about that is it's near and dear to my heart as an entrepreneur who owns several businesses, uh, and has often been the sales bottleneck. Um, and you know, I'm probably one of those people that I don't mind selling relationally, but I'm not a quintessential sales guy. Like if I had to go get a sales job to support my family, I'd absolutely do it. I think I'd do well. But while I like, I'm really more of the first part and last part of the deal kind of guy, like the raise awareness and interest and get connected and then bring them to a really great, organized, dedicated person that can really help shape the deal and put it together. So, how do you help owners like me and say, hey, here's here's how we can come in and help you do that? Because if you said right now, Casey, for your new AI company, what's your sales process? Um, I've got a loose idea, but it's there's so much demand on different items that people want that we can do. You know, what what would how would you and Steve come in and help them and say, help someone like me?

Avi Siegel

I'll I'll tell you that. And I'm gonna orchestrate one point from what you were just saying previously about the relationship versus

Ethical Persuasion And A Client Transformation

Avi Siegel

the transaction. Because as soon as you said that I got my phone out and I started to look this up because I just got this email pretty recently from a past client of mine, her name is Robin, and she sent me an email and she said, Avi, I hope this finds you well. I wanted to reach out and update you on my business. So I haven't spoken to her in a while. Um, but this is the transformation. This kind of combines everything we're talking about. We've been talking about this entire show, this entire podcast, this entire conversation. It's been about uh being able to sell in the Rolls-Royce way while staying genuine and authentic, while building these relationships that give and keep on giving and not being transactional, right? We have some things, we dive into the world of persuasion and influence. If anyone out there is familiar with Robert Scialdini, I know you are, right? Like we really dive into that world. And we do a lot of subconscious rapport building and we do a lot of these subconscious tactics. And I always tell my clients, like, if you know you can help someone, if you know you can change their world, do it. If you are not sure, like we have to stay within the bounds of ethics and morals. And if you're not sure if you can, don't do it. Right? Like, there's so many fish out there. You don't, this is not a transactional type thing. That's not what I believe in. In in the second thing I told you about, when someone comes, you know, first thing is the methodology, second thing is I'm gonna test you. Part of me testing you is to see who you are as a person, so I know whether or not I want to train you. I've had people who have come to me and uh have been what we'll call it a little sleazy, and they just showed it at the end, surprised the hell out of me. And I just ripped my offer back so fast. I was like, you know what? This is not like what you just did there is is the exact opposite of everything that I stand for. And so I'm gonna send you to someone else. I'm just not gonna train you on this stuff. So, anyway, um, this is kind of like the culmination where she says, you know, hope I find you one reach out and give you an update on my business. I completed my work with a $30 million company in Miami. We're starting to see great results. I landed a huge client, $170 million client from a networking connection. It's a huge opportunity for me. In addition, people, this is the transformation, people who I have networked with for four years or more have commented that I seem so much more confident and happier than ever. And honestly, you know, whatever. She talks about what the program did, but the uh doing sales in an authentic way was one of the big things that she got out of this. So it was a complete transformation of how she did sales. So anyway, I don't know, that just came up. But you asked um about Steve and that ability and that collaboration. And you also asked, how do we make it foolproof?

Casey Cease

Yeah.

Avi Siegel

Like, how do we get results for everyone? And so the work that I do with Steve

Getting Founders Out Of The Sales Seat

Avi Siegel

is really cool. The work that I do with Steve is helping these founders get out of the sales seat. Here's what the picture looks like. You have a founder, they've been running their company, they've had success, they've signed clients. Uh, they either don't want to be in the sales seat anymore, or they want to shift into CEO because they don't like sales, or they want to shift into CEO mode and now run a company and not be the top salesperson. And so what these people have is they have a lot of stuff that live in their head. They have a lot of stuff that they think works, but doesn't actually work. They have a lot of stuff, uh let me let me explain that a little more. They think they know why they've had success, but they really don't. Right? They're focusing on the wrong principles, conversation pieces. And so they take, if you have multiple different types of founders, right? You got the one founder that's like, I'm just gonna go get a hunter and I'm gonna throw them in and they're gonna do everything. They're hunters, they're salespeople, this is what they do. Fails miserably. There's no system and process. Then you have the founders who said, Okay, let me create a system and process for what I do. They create a half-assed system and process, it barely works. That person fails. They also don't know how to manage salespeople, right? Like this is their entire journey. If there's anyone remotely similar in this journey, you're gonna know exactly who you are just based on hearing this, right? Um, and they're gonna churn through probably two, three salespeople before they either give up or they just say, I'm gonna go back, you know, they give up on the sales position, or they say, you know, I'm I'm taking a break. I can't do it anymore. So the beautiful thing about what I'm doing with Steve is it extracts everything from the business owner, plus it takes our knowledge when it comes, my knowledge when it comes to sales systems and processes, Steve's knowledge when it comes to outsource salespeople, puts it all together. So I can take what a founder is doing and make it actually transferable to a salesperson. So you don't have to go through two, three hires before putting a pause on it for one reason or another. And on top of that, now they get to start selling like the roles, not like the Honda, because they were never trained on how to sell like a Honda, uh like a rolls. So they're still like kind of they're not needy. Some of them have super needy energy. Some of them, they're not needy, but they they're still not controlling the sales conversation, right? Like at the end of the day, they're still sitting there with their fingers crossed, even if they don't admit it out loud, in their brain, when they put their head down on their pillow at night, they're still like, God, I really hope this comes through, right? Like, I really hope this sale closes or whatever it is. So we take somebody that from that picture and we turn them into here's the exact system process that you run. Here's all the frameworks. This is the beautiful part, in my opinion, right? Nobody wants to read off a script, and everyone wants their salesperson to succeed. So, what do we do? We take the knowledge of the of the founder, we take our sales process, we put it all together, we build all the conversation pieces so that they never have to get into a sales conversation again. Their salesperson is trained on this whole process, the the the outsource, the fractional salesperson who comes into their world, trained on this whole process, and then guess what? They start making more money than they ever did before. Because they were the bottleneck. It was a leaky faucet to begin with. I guarantee every single founder who is listening to this has follow-up that they have not done. It as soon as something 100%.

Casey Cease

I mean, I'm thinking right now, it's like, oh man, I've got a follow up. I mean, you're speaking to me, buddy. Like, I mean, I I feel like I'm in the Rolls-Royce dealership trying to find Avi someplace and saying, please, please sell me a half million dollar car. Uh, no, I mean, that that's the truth, though. And and what what I always try to explain to people is is those of us with quick start, whatever, get the dopamine hit of the deal, and then also the desperation of needing a deal, and then wanting one thing, and then our behavior's not matching it. So, I mean, uh it brought to my mind when I was 15 years old, I was in Miami with my my parents uh and my dad's brothers were there and they charted a boat to go fishing, right? And at the time I was really into fishing. And all you had to do is the guys that were taking the boat out knew where to go, they had the radar or whatever to find the fish. They would hook the fish, then you sit down like a champion, bring in the sword fish or whatever it is, they clean it, they deal with it, whatever, right? As opposed to what I would normally do back home is go to a neighborhood lake with a buddy and get a lure or some bread on a hook and pray and hope that something will bite. Right. Right. You know, and and that's right. Like, and if you get a little perch or something small, you're like, man, I got something. It's it's that difference of every business as it matures should have some predictable success, being able to identify where the market is, what the offer is, and then have a process to bring them in and replicate themselves. I think though, that that feels less fun sometimes until you're in a world of chaos. When when the income is up or down based upon your direct effort. And what I always tell people is if that's your living situation, you don't you don't own a company, you own a job. And quite honestly, you probably as a business owner should fire yourself because you're not doing the job as it should, right? And so I've I found myself there more than one time. That's always what's been so compelling about what you do and how you train people, but also this this collaboration you bring together with Steve to really help the founders identify that. Because you're right, the documented sales process is largely based on relationship and personality until you document it. And it could be proven that anybody that can follow a process and be relational, get the get get the ethos of it to come and say, hey, we're here to really serve people, identify the right person and get them connected to the right solution. If you don't have that, you're always going to be on the seesaw of success and a feeling of failure, which, you know, there's a book called The Entrepreneur Roller Coaster. I think all of us have written that roller coaster and sometimes get addicted to the dopamine rush and the panic, but there comes a point of maturity where we have to say, I'm sure I could figure it out. But if Avi can help me do that, or if Avi and Steve can help me not only identify the process, but then place a fractional salesperson, that that's their job, that's what they're doing. That seems like the way forward.

How To Reach Avi And Closing

Casey Cease

Well, man, there's so much we could talk about. I know uh we're kind of hit our 30-minute mark, but uh, where can people connect with you, Avi? How can they find you and uh get to know you and see if they might be able to purchase roles from you, as it were?

Avi Siegel

I love that. Um, I'm gonna give you the team line, which is gonna be I'll just give you a phone number. 717-831-8319.

Casey Cease

Okay.

Avi Siegel

That is gonna be the best place. That's the fastest way to get in touch with us, um, and we'll see whether or not it makes sense.

Casey Cease

All right. Well, Avi, thanks so much for joining me today. I'm sure we'll we'll be back on talking. You and I can talk for hours, so I really appreciate you coming on. We'll we'll we'll have to do it again.

Avi Siegel

My pleasure.